A couple of months after Jan. 6, Donald Trump sat down with ABC News’ Jonathan Karl, who asked the former president some questions about the attack on the Capitol. Specifically, the reporter sought the Republican’s reaction to rioters chanting, “Hang Mike Pence” as they breached our seat of government.
Trump suggested to Karl that he didn’t much care. “Well, the people were very angry,” the former president said in March 2021, adding, “[I]t’s common sense.”
It quickly became clear that from Trump’s perspective, Pence was guilty of an unforgivable betrayal. But the scope of that belief came into much sharper focus yesterday during the Jan. 6 committee’s latest hearing. NBC News reported:
From previous leaks and reporting, the public already knew the general timeline of events on Jan. 6. But the committee Thursday offered details and testimony proving that Trump was aware of violence at the Capitol when he tweeted at 2:24 p.m. that day that Pence lacked the “courage” to overturn the election.
The committee showed testimony from some White House witnesses who acknowledged that Trump was told about the escalating violence on Capitol Hill. The hope was that the then-president would issue a public call to calm the waters.
Trump, once informed of the crisis, instead published another tweet accusing Pence of treachery. As one of the committee members, Democratic Rep. Pete Aguilar, explained yesterday, it was at that point that “the crowds both outside the Capitol and inside the Capitol surged.”
White House press aide Sarah Matthews testified, “The situation was already bad, and so it felt like he was pouring gasoline on the fire by tweeting that.”
Just hours earlier, Trump also delivered remarks to his enraged followers. Yesterday’s hearing introduced a previously undisclosed detail: The prepared remarks did not originally include mentioning the then-vice president, but Trump added comments about Pence anyway.
The assembled crowd heard the then-president say that Pence needed to have the “courage” to refuse to certify the election results, adding, “I hope Mike is going to do the right thing…. [B]ecause if Mike Pence does the right thing, we win the election.”
In the weeks leading up to that day, Trump was told that the scheme to overturn the election results was illegal, which was why Pence wasn’t going along. The outgoing president nevertheless demanded that the outgoing vice president cooperate with the illegal plot.
And when Pence didn’t budge, Trump grew comfortable putting his right-hand man in literal, physical danger.
Indeed, another new detail that emerged yesterday was the distance between the rioters and Pence. When the then-vice president was evacuated from his ceremonial office and directed to a secure location, investigators ultimately learned that, at one point, Pence and the mob were only separated by 40 feet. “I could hear the din of the rioters in the building while we moved,” Pence lawyer Greg Jacob testified yesterday. “But I don’t think I was aware that they were as close as that.” In the same hearing, Aguilar asked Jacob, “Did Donald Trump ever call the vice president to check on his safety?” The lawyer responded, “He did not.” Soon after, the Democratic congressman pointed to comments from a Proud Boys informant who told the FBI that Proud Boys members attacking the Capitol “would have killed Mike Pence if given a chance.” As Trump moves forward with his apparent intention to run another national campaign in 2024, it’s likely he’ll choose a new running mate. The contenders for that job should pause and take note now: If you put the rule of law above Trump’s personal interests, he’s willing to put your life in danger. We know this for certain because he’s done it before.
Steve Benen is a producer for "The Rachel Maddow Show," the editor of MaddowBlog and an MS NOW political contributor. He's also the bestselling author of "Ministry of Truth: Democracy, Reality, and the Republicans' War on the Recent Past."
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