During Donald Trump’s latest “Meet the Press” interview, I was glad to see NBC News’ Kristen Welker ask the former president about Jan. 6 because he ended up clarifying matters in unexpected ways.
The host asked, for example, about how he watched the events unfold as his radicalized followers attacked his own country’s Capitol. “Were you in the dining room watching TV?” Welker asked.
“I’m not going to tell you,” the usually loquacious Republican replied. “I’ll tell people later at an appropriate time.”
As part of the same line of questions, Trump tried anew to blame then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi for the violence he instigated:
“I understand that the police testified against — listen to me, Kristen. Listen to me. I understand that the police testified against her — the chief, very strongly against her. Capitol Police, they’re great people. They testified against her. And they burned all the evidence. Okay? They burned all the evidence.”
Oh. So, in the former president’s mind, there would’ve been evidence to substantiate his conspiracy theories, but “they” — he didn’t say who these rascals are — literally set fire to the information that would’ve made Pelosi look bad.
This was, of course, quite bonkers, even by Trump standards. There was no group of rascals; there was no such evidence; and there was no bonfire. The very idea is so plainly ridiculous that it was bizarre to see him pitch it to a national television audience.
But perhaps most important was the sympathy the Republican felt for those convicted of Jan. 6 crimes. From the “Meet the Press” transcript:
“When I talk about retribution, I’m talking about fairness. We have to treat people fairly. These people on January 6, they went — some of them never even went into the building, and they’re being given sentences of, you know, many years.”
It’s possible that Trump is genuinely ignorant of the relevant details. It’s also possible that he knows the truth but doesn’t care.
Either way, the facts matter. As an NBC News report explained, “Some of the defendants who got some of the longest sentences of any participants in the Jan. 6, 2021, at the U.S. Capitol — including Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio and Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes — did not enter the Capitol themselves but got lengthy sentences after they were convicted of seditious conspiracy. Some of the most vicious assaults of the Capitol attack were committed by people who never stepped [sic] foot in the building, and some of them got significant sentences, too.” Nevertheless, the former president said he “certainly might” extend pardons to Jan. 6 criminals if he’s returned to the White House. Trump added, “It’s a very, very sad thing. They’re dividing the country so badly, and it’s very dangerous.” In other words, as the frontrunner for the GOP’s presidential nomination sees it, it’s wrong to hold insurrectionist rioters and those found guilty of sedition accountable. Indeed, he sees it as “very dangerous” to prosecute those who committed such crimes. When Democrats talk about democracy and the rule of law being on the ballot, such rhetoric is not hyperbolic.
Steve Benen is a producer for "The Rachel Maddow Show," the editor of MaddowBlog and an MS NOW political contributor. He's also the bestselling author of "Ministry of Truth: Democracy, Reality, and the Republicans' War on the Recent Past."
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